omega speedmaster 105.002 help

To be certain, we need a little bit more info:

  • Picture of the inside of the caseback (reference number, should be 105.002-62 or 2998-62)
  • Picture of the movement (serial number, should be from 1961-63)

As you may know, this is the twin of the 2998-62, a transition between the old and the newer reference number system. The watches are exactly alike.

If it checks out (ref. bullets above), it looks original to me. Hands ok. Dial ok. Case (a bit polished) is ok. A newer Omega crown is ok by me, but some collectors want the original ones. Bezel (dot over 90) is ok. As condition goes, it is above average, VG/VG+

All in all it is potentially a really nice watch! And a rare bird too. :)
 
Thank you for the reply, here are the pics you mentioned:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/attach...ster-ref-105-002-1962-deksel-binnen-klein.jpg

http://s128.photobucket.com/user/marijn_album/media/binnen-3309_zps74aa332e.jpg.html

and front view of the dial again:
http://s128.photobucket.com/user/marijn_album/media/recht-macro-beter323_zps490f8584.jpg.html


The one thing Im wondering about is the lumen on the alpha hour hand seems to be either triangle shaped or straight line like in this one. I have seen both in pics when doing a google search and am not sure if both are original to the period.

Any idea on reasonable price for this? They vary hugely from what I see..


SpaceCowboy skrev:
To be certain, we need a little bit more info:

  • Picture of the inside of the caseback (reference number, should be 105.002-62 or 2998-62)
  • Picture of the movement (serial number, should be from 1961-63)

As you may know, this is the twin of the 2998-62, a transition between the old and the newer reference number system. The watches are exactly alike.

If it checks out (ref. bullets above), it looks original to me. Hands ok. Dial ok. Case (a bit polished) is ok. A newer Omega crown is ok by me, but some collectors want the original ones. Bezel (dot over 90) is ok. As condition goes, it is above average, VG/VG+

All in all it is potentially a really nice watch! And a rare bird too. :)
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I'm not quite sure if I understood your question, but the hands are fine.

According to Maddox, the dauphine hands are the correct ones for the 2998/105.002-62. The chrono second hand (spearpoint) was first introduced with this model, but a bit later in the production run, so this goes together well with a 62 model (The early 2998s had the needle-shaped second chrono hand).

The reference is a correct 105.002-62, but I didn't see a serial number on the movement (not a good picture). I'm quite sure it is correct but I would check it anyway. It needs to be a cal. 321 and it should be 1962, but 1961 and 1963 is ok as well. Omega didn't have a watertight regime with regard to movements, references and serial numbers. But it shouldn't be too many years apart.

Price? Varies yes, it all depends on originality and condition. This one is above average on both accounts (given the serial number checks out). Probably a price above average as well.

Interestingly, the 2998 was the reference Wally Schirra wore when he flew with Sigma 7 in October 1962. The first Speedmaster in orbit. Some people know this watch as the limited re-edition called "Omega Speedmaster in Space". The 2998/105.002-62 is the original. :cool:

Sure is a cool Space Watch.
 
Redigert:
triz neena skrev:
The one thing Im wondering about is the lumen on the alpha hour hand seems to be either triangle shaped or straight line like in this one. I have seen both in pics when doing a google search and am not sure if both are original to the period.

..
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I had a 105.002-62 with the exact same hands configuration as on this one, i found a couple of examples with the straight line but never from Omega catalogues ( the combo alpha and baton for registers is not supported either by any official Omega documents so i assumed then that something was off).
Quite interesting to see an identical twin ( or is it the same watch? I sold mine for 7 or 8 years ago)
 
lobergen skrev:
I had a 105.002-62 with the exact same hands configuration as on this one, i found a couple of examples with the straight line but never from Omega catalogues ( the combo alpha and baton for registers is not supported either by any official Omega documents so i assumed then that something was off).
Quite interesting to see an identical twin ( or is it the same watch? I sold mine for 7 or 8 years ago)
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Now I understood the question. :)

I will check my off-line litterature (Richon, Maddox et. al.) tonight and see if there is any chance of concluding on this one.
 
Chuck Maddox wrote an excellent article on the Speedmaster in "International Watch" back in December 2007. Here's what he says about the ref. 2998:

"I’ve been studying the Speedmasters since 1998 and I have yet to find any person or document that lays out all of the subtle distinctions between these [2998] models.

Starting from the basic features of the CK2915-3, one of the first distinctions was the chronograph second hand which, while remaining needle-shaped, was painted white to stand out in poor light from the dial. In addition, the location of the “Speedmaster” engraved text on the caseback is moved from between two of the wrench notches on the caseback to an arc on the flat part of the caseback, in an arc over the Hippocampus.

Throughout the production run of the CK2998, the bezel would lose the “Base 1000” mark- ing (to be replaced with numerals going up to 500), the subdial hands would migrate from their spearpoint shape to straight white-painted stick hands (as seen on all Speedmasters produced since), the pusher size remains at 4 mm in diameter while the crown has grown in size to 7 mm.

Also, some CK2998s were produced with a unique chronograph second hand with a “Lollipop” luminous circle located at the same height as the Omega logo on the dial. These “Lollipop” Speedmasters are very uncommon and fetch high prices when listed for sale. Later CK2998s adopted a new and different chronograph seconds hand, which would be used for several years. This new hand had a spearpoint luminous shape approximately over the Omega logo when the chronograph was reset at zero, as well as a “spearpoint” counterbalance as opposed to the original needle shaped hand. Because the CK2998s and a very select few 105.002’s have the unique Dauphine hands, these watches attract more interest and hence higher prices than later Speedmasters."

Unfortunately he doesn't mention the shape of the luminova, but when I confer M. Richon's Journey Through Time they both look legit. The hour hand with at triangle luminova and the ones with the straight line luminova. As far as I can see the minute hand is the same regardless.

My conclusion: The hands are original to the watch and for the time period, given the even patina on dial and hands.
 
Some great information here! I did also read though that the minute hand should reach to the edge of markers, which would make this one too short. This happened because the hands were sometimes replaced by the shorter railmaster hands. But in other sources it says omega used whatever they had leftover. difficult to say..

Also still not sure about what price to pay for this.. It's up for 45k nok which could also get a nice 5513 maxi.. Also if I want to move it on then not sure if enough people are interested in it.

SpaceCowboy skrev:
Chuck Maddox wrote an excellent article on the Speedmaster in "International Watch" back in December 2007. Here's what he says about the ref. 2998:

"I’ve been studying the Speedmasters since 1998 and I have yet to find any person or document that lays out all of the subtle distinctions between these [2998] models.

Starting from the basic features of the CK2915-3, one of the first distinctions was the chronograph second hand which, while remaining needle-shaped, was painted white to stand out in poor light from the dial. In addition, the location of the “Speedmaster” engraved text on the caseback is moved from between two of the wrench notches on the caseback to an arc on the flat part of the caseback, in an arc over the Hippocampus.

Throughout the production run of the CK2998, the bezel would lose the “Base 1000” mark- ing (to be replaced with numerals going up to 500), the subdial hands would migrate from their spearpoint shape to straight white-painted stick hands (as seen on all Speedmasters produced since), the pusher size remains at 4 mm in diameter while the crown has grown in size to 7 mm.

Also, some CK2998s were produced with a unique chronograph second hand with a “Lollipop” luminous circle located at the same height as the Omega logo on the dial. These “Lollipop” Speedmasters are very uncommon and fetch high prices when listed for sale. Later CK2998s adopted a new and different chronograph seconds hand, which would be used for several years. This new hand had a spearpoint luminous shape approximately over the Omega logo when the chronograph was reset at zero, as well as a “spearpoint” counterbalance as opposed to the original needle shaped hand. Because the CK2998s and a very select few 105.002’s have the unique Dauphine hands, these watches attract more interest and hence higher prices than later Speedmasters."

Unfortunately he doesn't mention the shape of the luminova, but when I confer M. Richon's Journey Through Time they both look legit. The hour hand with at triangle luminova and the ones with the straight line luminova. As far as I can see the minute hand is the same regardless.

My conclusion: The hands are original to the watch and for the time period, given the even patina on dial and hands.
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