RCar58;46703989 skrev:
Doc, kudos on the great job that you do. I too am a fan of the 9015, absolutely love it. But I'm really curious as to your thoughts on the STP engine in the Devil Ray.
Also, a refreshing break from "bezel mania", lol
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The STP's are okay. Some pros, some cons.
Hard to argue with their value proposition on paper: priced under an ETA 2824-2 standard or Sellita SW200; higher PR than the 2824-2 or SW200, even higher than the 9015; adjusted to 5 positions (compared to 2 for standard grade 2824-2, 3 for elaborated, and 5 for top-grade, or 4 for the 9015), Incabloc shock protection (sames as 2824-2 top grade); Nivaflex NM hairspring (sames as 2824-2 top grade), beautifully decorated (if you care or can see it through a display back)...all pros.
Cons - for the manufacturer, we have to deal with a higher defect rate. The rate I've seen with the 9015 is 0.1%-3%. I'm told the expected rate with the 2824-2 is 5%-6%. With the STP's, it's hard to say, but I think we're probably around 10%. It's hard to say exactly what the defect rate is because of how it presents itself.
Compare to the 9015 - when you replace 1 movement in 500-1000 pieces, or 3 in 100, it's easy to calculate the defect rate. But when you start seeing higher defect rates, it's harder, because you don't know how many your factory is fixing or replacing during assembly and their QC, before they send them to you. Then we fix/replace some in our QC, then we get some back from customers. You can get a batch with a 1% rate and another batch with a 30% rate. We found 8 with problems in 10 replacements we asked for.
So, as best as I can calculate, I think the rate we've seen with the STP in 650 pieces is ~10%, though that may be low, since I don't know what my factory saw, except that they said it was "high", which just means anything higher than 1%.
What does that mean to customers? Nothing, really, so long as you're buying from a seller who has the ability and willingness to support you post-sale, in the event you find your movement seems to have a problem, and especially not if the seller does good QC. Not everyone does enough QC or has the same ability or willingness to provide support.
Ideally, customers shouldn't need to know the defect rate in the movements, because the manufacturer or seller will provide support no matter what it is.
We didn't know the full extent of the problem when we shipped 300 of the Antilles and Azores. When we saw a higher return for repair rate, we ordered extra movements, and prepared to do a lot more testing on the DevilRay during QC.
For the DevilRay, we were more cautious. We talked to watchmakers to define an acceptable range of readings on the timegrapher, gave those ranges to our factory, asked the factory to use them during their testing, and actually test in all 6 positions, not just the 5 specified in the STP's spec sheet.
Then, when we got them here, we tested them all again, thoroughly, in all 6 positions, and repaired/replaced any which looked suspect.
During our QC, I gave my watchmaker something like 50 pieces which seemed suspect. Of those, I think only 25-30 actually needed help, and the rest were fine. He got them all sorted before we shipped. Since then, I think we've only had 1 or 2 pieces with a movement problem come back from a customer.
They're "Swiss Made", but I think there's ample evidence to understand that they're at least partly Chinese, which is why we see the higher defect rate.
We did an experiment. After using Japanese movements in 2500 watches, we made 650 with a "Swiss" movement. My opinion is "meh, they're okay". If I wanted to use another Swiss movement, I'd probably just use an ETA, assuming we could even get them whenever that might happen.
If the defect rate was lower, I'd say the bang-for-the-buck makes the STP as good a value proposition as the 9015, especially if parts suppliers would begin stocking replacement movements, so that people could buy movements to drop in rather than have them serviced. But with the higher defect rate, and without seeing parts suppliers stock them (yet), I prefer the 9015, and think its value proposition is unmatched.
I've left the door open for my opinion to change. I know other micros are still using them. I want to see how they fare over the next couple years, and compare notes with my peers. I told my factory we wouldn't use them again until we saw some improvements, but if we saw them, we might use them again.
I've shared my experience with a bunch of my peers. If they're prepared to support a model with a different movement, then they should likewise be prepared to support a model with the STP. Preparation to provide post-sale support shouldn't be movement-dependent. I have a watchmaker, a parts account with a parts supplier, and a source for movements, if we need them. We're prepared for anything.
Regardless, being prepared doesn't mean I'm ambivalent. Ideally, we wouldn't need to deal with many returns for repair, so I prefer to use movements with lower defect rates, like the Japanese movements.
